WebMakers Talks: How can AI support people with disabilities?

We invite you to listen to the next episode of our WM Talks podcast, where we discuss technology and business topics related to the IT industry.

Hi, welcome to another episode of the WebMakers Talks podcast. Today, we're going to talk about technology in service of people with disabilities. I'm Szymon from WebMakers. We mainly focus on designing and developing web applications and supporting companies with the use of artificial intelligence. And my guest today is Aneta from the Jednooka Wojowniczka Foundation. Hi Aneta.

Hello.

Aneta, tell us a bit about your foundation, what you do, and what brings you here. Then we'll talk about how technology can help people with disabilities.

I've been working under the pseudonym "Jednooka Wojowniczka" (One-Eyed Warrior) since 2018. It all started with publishing a book. In 2018, at my author event, I was invited to a school to talk to students about self-acceptance and self-worth, how it's possible to overcome limitations and disabilities and live a good, fulfilling life. I continued this work for many years, until June 2023, when, after a long struggle, I managed to establish and personally fund the Jednooka Wojowniczka Foundation. What do we do? As I've mentioned, we hold meetings across Poland in schools with youth. We focus on the final grades of primary schools, since the middle school level no longer exists, and also secondary schools. We talk about self-acceptance and self-worth. Unfortunately, these days the conversation increasingly touches on sui*ide prevention, because that issue has grown significantly. We all know what's going on new generations bring new challenges. Our second project actually, we're heading into its third edition, is called "Niepełnosprawna i Piękna" ("Disabled and Beautiful"). It involved women with disabilities from across Poland, women with visible and invisible disabilities, wheelchair users, people with SMASMA and various other challenges and also eye disabilities. They came to Katowice, we gave them professional makeup and photo shoots, and showed that they are beautiful, not that they can be beautiful, but that they are beautiful. We brought that beauty out of them. The photos speak for themselves, and you could really see the impact when the women saw themselves in those pictures.

The second edition was called "Niepełnosprawny Wojowniczy" ("Disabled Warrior") and was aimed at men with disabilities. It took place in a mining-themed restaurant in Myslowice. We showed them in two versions: one business, themed and one rugged, in work clothes. They too had a photo session in the same style, with the same purpose. And just like the women, the men came from Warsaw, from all over Poland. Now we're organizing a third edition for couples with disabilities, a more sensual edition, showing that their love can be a beautiful bond despite the daily challenges and what disability brings to their relationships.

That's our second major initiative. The third one is also related to mental health. On our Facebook group, "Wojownicy Jednookej" ("The One-Eyed Warriors"), we have regular support sessions hosted by three coaches who are also social skills trainers. They use different methods of support.

The aim there is to help participants grow, fight for a better version of themselves, and accompany them along the way, because that's the role of a coach. They're not a psychologist or therapist, but they can be the first step and a companion on the journey to a better self and a better life. So those are our three main focus areas. Of course, we have more ideas and projects in development or we're hoping to realize, but for now, this is our core.

Got it. Sounds amazing. Now, we're also here to talk about technology and artificial intelligence, which is becoming increasingly present in our lives. Tell me, as a person with a disability and on behalf of the people you support, do you already use AI in any way? Has this technology reached you, and if so, how? Does it support you? What does that look like from your perspective and the perspective of people with disabilities?

I think there's no real division between people with disabilities and those without when it comes to using technology. Everyone uses it. But yes, I believe that AI has opened even more doors for people with disabilities, especially in the job market.

Ok.

And the pandemic also contributed to the fact that many people with significant physical disabilities now have open doors to business and the job market thanks to home office and remote work. This allows them to pursue education, gain marketing skills, or learn various optimization tools. They can reskill or explore something new, and for them, this is a huge opportunity. I myself spent years working in recruitment for people with disabilities, and I know how many remote positions I recruited for roles that previously weren't even accessible to these individuals. They had no chance of entering the job market at all.

So, combining the effects of the pandemic, the new remote work legislation, and artificial intelligence, I believe this has had a tremendous impact on the professional activation of people with disabilities.

Okay, great. So you're saying that people with disabilities, who we don't differentiate in this context use artificial intelligence just like the rest of us. We all benefit from the technological advancements around us. In that case, I'd also like to talk about some of those tools technology that surrounds us and supports us like voice assistants or speech transcription used by drivers, for example. How do tools like that support or have the potential to support people with disabilities?

You know what, I think they help immensely. I recently recruited individuals who are completely blind for a multinational company, and it's only thanks to modern technology speech synthesizers and other assistive tools, that they were able to join the workforce. Without screen readers or speech synthesizers, they simply wouldn't have had the opportunity. These people are specialists, and it's their first job. They've become professionals thanks to their competencies, engagement, and hard work, but also thanks to this technology. Without it, they wouldn't have had the chance to work for an international company in a specialist role. Given that they are blind, completely without sight, they can't do physical or manual work, which severely limits their access to the labor market. That's why I think this is groundbreaking for people with disabilities, especially those who are deaf or blind. And I'm truly happy to live in times when I can expand my professional competencies in recruitment and support people with disabilities entering the workforce. It's definitely a major leap forward for people with disabilities.

Sure. I'd also like to ask about this, because I assume that both artificial intelligence, and technology are growing, which means they're likely not available everywhere, not yet present in all institutions or environments. What difficulties have you encountered so far? And I'm emphasizing the word so far, because we assume this will continue to evolve and that we'll keep expanding both technological and AI horizons. But we also have to talk about access, these things aren't cheap. So, from the perspective of people with disabilities, do you feel there's a need to increase technological development or simply broaden access to technology?

You know what, I'm going to flip the script a bit, because we're talking about artificial intelligence. But let's remember that alongside artificial intelligence, we must keep our human intelligence alive and well. The biggest barrier, above all else, is people's mindset. When someone is open to their own potential and to recognizing the intelligence and capabilities of others, then technology becomes just a complementary tool in that collaboration. It doesn't matter if we're talking about business or any other area of life. And when that mental barrier doesn't exist, the obstacles associated with artificial intelligence also seem smaller.

Of course, there are plenty of barriers, just like you said finances, for example, but let's say there's an employee who... I'm sorry I keep referring to the job market, but that's what I'm immersed in. I'll probably move on to youth in a moment, since I also work with them and travel around. But I'm drawing on my own experience, obviously. I'll probably touch on some research and academic perspectives too, but my experience is this: when entering the job market, for example, a person, let's call them X - has been working for 20 years in one position, doing regular office administration work. I have an acquaintance who well, someone I came to know through a friend of a friend became blind overnight because of a bio fireplace. All they did was light it, and it exploded, and they lost their sight completely. It literally burned their eyeballs.

And now, if that person returns to work because they have the opportunity, but they worked in administration, relying mostly on their sense of sight, and the employer isn't open to introducing something as simple or as essential as a speech synthesizer or screen reader, then that's a barrier. And you see, that's directly tied to mindset, right?

People... So, let's remember: AI, artificial intelligence, is meant to be a support, an aid, not the main solution to limitations. Because the first thing I encounter in my work, in business, in the foundation, and in private life, is human mentality and that's the biggest barrier. Everything else? We can figure out. We can find a workaround, a simple solution. I believe that if there's no barrier here, in our mindset, then financial and other barriers can be reduced, or even eliminated completely.

Exactly. Just like you said, it's people who are the driving force behind technological progress, and it's also people who create the opportunity to employ individuals with disabilities, to engage with them, accept them, and invite them into collaboration.

You talked about how people are the reason artificial intelligence is developing, they either choose to embrace it or not. They decide whether or not to integrate technology into their companies. But it's not only about technology here. What I'd really like to discuss now is how people perceive artificial intelligence, and how they perceive access to technology itself. That is, the things that are now appearing on the market, especially tools aimed at supporting people dealing with mental health issues, depression, and similar challenges. There's a growing movement around support through artificial intelligence, but not only that.

And I'd also like to talk about that, about the barriers above all, that people encounter when trying to use these resources, which are actually free. And of course, the other side of the coin where… we have people who cannot be replaced by technology. What's your take on all of this? And just as you said, that you also talk with kids, I'd simply like to hear what it looks like from the perspective of someone who's really at the intersection of working with kids and seeing what's happening around us. Because let's not kid ourselves, the world is changing, and we have to adapt to it too.

Let's start with the fact that our hippocampus likes things that are familiar. And anything that's new, unknown, any kind of change, is uncomfortable for us, and we need some time to get used to it. It's the same with introducing technology into our lives. Whether it's in private life, relationships, work, business, it doesn't matter. And yes, kids, Generation Z, millennials they adapt faster because they're born into it, right? Older generations need and require more time to adjust, to get used to it, to use it fully, and to want to.

So I think that's the answer—it's hard to say whether it's easy for us, or whether we want it or not. Because sometimes we don't even want it, but our work or profession kind of forces us into it. I resisted for a long time myself when I was working in marketing. I told myself, as a writer, I'll write everything from A to Z, full copywriting, oh my God, people, I nearly drove myself into the ground. I literally had to force myself. And now I say, "God, how good is this, right?" So, from my own experience, I see that sometimes you need to go through a certain resistance to really benefit and see the good in it. Because it's like a knife, right? It always has a good side, you can use it to spread butter on bread, or stab someone in the back. It's still a tool, and we can extract great, good, useful things from it or not.

And moving smoothly to young people that's exactly how it is. They have very quick access. We also know that just because something is fast and easy doesn't necessarily mean it's valuable. And this applies to all areas of life. Unfortunately, it's the same with them, they do have access, but it's easier to just watch shorts and scroll reels than to actually dive into something, like asking for help, even from artificial intelligence. Because it also supports mental health, and it can help, but it's not necessarily a complete solution. Which we already know. We know that artificial intelligence is supposed to support humans, not replace them.

It's just a tool, it really is here to help us. And depending on how we use it, like you mentioned with the knife analogy, those will be the results we get. There's no use pretending otherwise. Of course, from the perspective of someone working in tech, you can prepare countless blocks and safeguards. But from the technological side, there are just as many people trying to break those safeguards. So we have to look at it that way too.

And as a mom, I'll tell you, these kids know how to get what they want. And the problem is well, maybe not a problem, but what I'm observing, is that because of how easy everything is, they want to replace. They won't go ask a school counselor, psychologist, or someone they trust for help, they'll try to sort it all out online and essentially replace real help with digital solutions. And I think that's the biggest barrier for young people today. So here's my loud appeal: the tool that is meant to support us should not be treated as a complete solution or a total replacement for real help.

Yes, you can clearly see it among young people there's more phone and text based communication, and a withdrawal from the kinds of relationships that have built and sustained society for centuries. That's a major behavioral issue, beyond just technology itself. Unfortunately, that's how it is whenever something in our world changes, society first gets excited and rushes to embrace it, then it starts to choke on it, and only afterward slowly learns how to use it properly. And this is no different, it's exactly the same. That said, I'd really like to hear what those meetings with kids are like. I mean, when you visit schools, how do you present your foundation, and what does it all look like from that perspective? I imagine that could give us new fuel to keep exploring the topics of technology.

Okay, what does it look like? As you can imagine, my lectures for one group last about 45 minutes. They vary in terms of how many kids are present, depending on the location where the event is held. There was one inclusive school in Warsaw that was practically a labyrinth, and I had 600 kids in the room. To make things more exciting, the mic and sound system failed, but that was 600 kids in one go, right? Other schools might just have one or two classes, because they're small. So it really depends on the location and so on. But generally, I don't try to represent the foundation or talk about myself too much, because they're not interested in that. It's not their age or their generation. So first, I briefly tell them who I am, why I'm the One-Eyed Warrior. I touch on the fact that I had a clinical death during an accident, but only briefly. Then I move on to people who are inspiring in terms of self worth and self acceptance. The first person is one we probably know from our generation Nick Vujicic, who has no arms or legs. The second, perhaps less known, is the world famous model Madeline Stuart, who has Down syndrome, Trisomy 21. And in between, I share my own journey to self-acceptance, how I was bullied at school because of my disability, my one-eyed condition, and because I was fat and ugly. The consequences of the accident were such that for a long time I looked like a boy, I fought with boys, looked like a boy. I had been on too many steroids, as much as my body could handle. So I tell them about that journey. What changed when I finally found self-acceptance a few years ago it was, of course, a psychological process. Up to a point, I went through it without professional help, but I'll get to that part in a moment.

And I say it, and I speak out loudly, that just like we treat legs, livers, lungs, and hearts - there's absolutely no shame in treating your mind and emotions. That this is now normal, and in fact not a weakness but a strength when you want a better life and you're fighting for yourself. And I'll tell you, the reactions are mixed. Most of the time, they come in with this mindset like: "Ah, an extra lesson, chill, I'll just sit on my phone", right? Standard stuff. And yes, at the beginning it's like that. But then, when we go deeper, silence falls. Sometimes even tears show up. They don't show it, but it's there. Let me tell you about one example from Monday. I gave a talk in Katowice, at my former technical school. One of the students brought us coffee and tea and said, "I totally overslept, ma'am. And I thought, okay, first period, some talk with someone, no big deal, I'll just sit through it but these meetings with you were fuc…" …and I won't finish that sentence, we all know what he meant. And that's the kind of motivator that sort of wakes those kids up a bit that they start to reflect, that they're emotionally repressed, frozen, precisely because of their phones, because of technology, which is cool, accessible, but they don't always use it in the right way. And what's great is that I kind of wake them up a little, kind of tell them use it, sure, it's needed. Because we all know that when we have depressive thoughts… our chat app, or some other application, can help us, cool. But that's not the same as going to a specialist and asking for help. Because unfortunately, that has to be done with your mouth, face to face, "one to one". And unfortunately, technology won't do that for us. AI won't catch everything. Even though it has tons of algorithms and loads of great tools, it's not always enough.

Yes, that's what I represent and that's what my meetings look like. The reactions are different, and there are follow up conversations after those sessions, they reach out to me through social media, whether it's Facebook or Instagram. We keep talking after that. There were cases where suicidal thoughts came up, or somehow got to me, and I had to pass that information on. Those are powerful outcomes. I know I'm not going to reach 100% of them when I'm there. Of course, we keep statistics on how many kids we meet with each year… but I believe that if even one person walks away with hope, maybe saves their life or asks a specialist for help, then it's absolutely worth doing.

Exactly. From my point of view, since I also often run micro-workshops on artificial intelligence and similar things, we support people using AI who are dealing with all kinds of issues, whether they're directly related to business or not. One reflection I had is that you probably get tons of messages, people writing to you, reaching out—and I thought, it would be great to have an assistant that could help with that. Someone (or something) that could filter through that huge workload and at the same time flag, "Hey, this is an important topic. This is someone opening up to you, you should take a closer look". So this kind of veers off topic, but also really hits home in terms of technology, because it's a tool. It's not just here to support young people, but also those who want to help young people. So we can focus on the kids, on what they expect from us and what they need from us. If technology supports us in that mission, then that's the greatest added value we could possibly have. What you're saying is incredibly interesting and truly inspiring.

What you just said about those screen readers, it's like the full picture, right? That the person who's helping, who's stepping into their world, it's the same thing with kids. They have a hard time with trust. Unfortunately, our parents or theirs, I'm already a parent of that younger generation myself, and maybe this is feedback for me too, although I try not to let it be the case… But the truth is that trust is built by being present and spending time together. And sadly, the race for material things means there's little time left and that results in a lack of trust toward adults. So if they've trusted me, if they've seen me, it's hard to redirect them to someone or something else.

And that's the issue once they've talked to me and seen me, they want to keep talking to me. They often won't go to a psychologist, or even the school counselor who's right there. They'll write to me, because somehow I earned their trust, maybe just by giving them some time, even if it was with a whole group, just a bit of attention. So what you're saying, that full picture, is really spot on, to have that person, that assistant, who supports those of us who genuinely want to help, and who can help direct them, support them through it all. That's what's great, when it works as a whole. But when we start pulling pieces out, one of those key elements stops working.

Exactly, especially because you, as an adult, as a specialist, know how to use it. Like we keep saying, it's just a tool. You're not a kid who's just testing things out, you know how to filter out harmful or false information. That's why there always needs to be a human who can filter what comes through, and that's a really important point. Now I'd like to shift gears a bit from the topic of mental health and talk a bit about mobility. About how artificial intelligence and technology in general are changing the way we move around cities and use infrastructure. For example, let's talk about autonomous taxis, which, by the way, have been operating in San Francisco since last year, and which are slowly making their way over to us too.

But not only that, I'm also thinking about the growing presence of things like exoskeletons powered by artificial intelligence, or AI enabled prosthetics that can detect whether you're holding a child or about to give a firm handshake to a CEO. I'm genuinely excited about this kind of technology, because it offers a sense of freedom people with disabilities don't have to feel limited or self-conscious anymore. It's empowering, it boosts self-worth. That's my take on it, of course, but I'd love to hear how you see it. What's your perspective on mobility, on prosthetics, on exoskeletons? How do you feel about all this?

I'll say this from my experience with people who have visual impairments, but also touching on what you mentioned, it's truly a beautiful thing. I recently saw a video of a woman who, for the first time, was able to stand up from her wheelchair using a prosthetic. And it wasn't exhausting, like when you have to strap into ceiling-mounted harnesses just to get upright and fight against gravity. No, it was this natural, smooth movement. She just stood up and started walking, simply by stepping into the exoskeleton. I mean... that was pure joy to watch, and I could really see how that technology is helping people with disabilities. Of course, we know it's still a niche area. Right now it's expensive, because demand isn't that high. We know how that works.

But it's amazing that this is already happening, and as you said, it's going to expand. And you know what, AI… maybe we can smoothly shift into that topic. But yes, mobile autonomous taxis and all of this are growing so fast, it's really happening. I think that in 10 to 15 years, someone in a wheelchair won't face 50... okay, I'm guessing here, I'm sure there are studies on this, I just haven't read them— but I'd guess that 50% of the current infrastructure or technical barriers will be gone. Because things will be so advanced that we'll have, say, steps that extend automatically, or devices that assist without any manual effort. Right now, a lot of those systems break or need help, but in the future it'll all be seamless buildings will be designed with it in mind, and it'll just be the norm. Unfortunately, it still feels a bit like fighting windmills especially in Poland, but okay, let's not focus on that.

Exactly yes, we will still actually talk to each other about whether there are any opportunities for support on this topic.

Yes, but hold on, I wanted to go back for a moment to people with visual impairments, something I mentioned earlier. I have this colleague I recruited from the theatre since I'm also a professional actress who I helped place in an international automotive company. It's his first job. Now imagine this: he's blind, and yet I have the impression he sees absolutely everything. He's so well-rehabilitated and so seamlessly integrated with artificial intelligence that, for example, when he goes to buy perfume for his girlfriend, whom I also recruited, he's got an app for everything. He knows exactly what the perfume is, how it smells, what the composition is. When he travels, he knows where to get off the train, where to exit. He hears everything through his earpiece, it's all on his phone. He's got an app for literally everything. Truly. His coffee machine is connected to an app, when I visit, he makes me coffee, no problem.

It's incredible how technology supports people. For me, visual impairment is a particularly personal topic because I have it myself. But when it comes to mobility, like you mentioned, it's also an amazing support. And really, we could list every type of disability, technology is entering each space, helping and enabling us. So I feel incredibly hopeful and happy that these kinds of innovations are becoming reality. The barriers are starting to blur, and that's what matters, technology is enhancing our capabilities and helping people with disabilities become more fully included in both social and professional life.

So here's a quick digression. In a moment I'm going to ask you how people with visual impairments use smartphones, because I think that's something our listeners will find interesting too. But first, speaking of digressions, there's actually a company in Poland called Migam AI, if I remember correctly. They use artificial intelligence to develop algorithms for sign language translation. They translate all kinds of video content films, audio, podcasts into sign language in real time. Basically, they release a bot that signs the content as it's being delivered, which is an incredible technological advancement. You no longer need to hire a live actor or interpreter to translate into sign language. Of course, this technology is still evolving and not yet widely accessible, but it's already making its way into those spaces.

That's amazing. But coming back to what I wanted to ask, how do people with visual impairments actually use smartphones? Because let's be honest, for most of us, smartphones are basically just glowing screens, purely visual. So what's it like from that perspective?

First of all, you'll rarely meet a person with a visual impairment who doesn't use an iPhone. The iPhone is the main device, it was the first to really deliver a fully integrated screen reader that is smooth, highly functional, and just very compatible. So yes, it's the go to for people who are blind and leaving the house. Of course, that brings us back to finances, there's the cost factor, but the iPhone really is essential. It's a key tool. Then there's also the Apple Watch - it all works seamlessly together. So yes, the iPhone is like an assistant. There's the speech synthesizer I mentioned earlier. When it comes to computers, we're talking about screen readers, there are various kinds, some free, some paid, depending on what you need for work. My friends, for example, primarily use those. And of course, everything revolves around sound - we record everything.

I don't do that myself, because I can see well with my other eye and generally function like a sighted person. But I still use an iPhone because it's simply easier to navigate all the apps, and it supports me in some situations. But yes, you can do a lot by voice. And don't forget, blind people often have heightened use of their other senses. They operate based on perception, sounds, and other sensory cues. But really, the progress has been enormous. From the '90s to now, it's like jumping 10 levels forward. People with visual impairments can now go out on their own, they're not afraid anymore. Some don't even use canes anymore, because navigation and other tech tools guide them so well.

I have a few friends from the theater like that, no cane, just an iPhone, an earbud, and off they go.

So yes, it's a huge help, a major improvement, and it's really activated and empowered blind individuals to navigate the world of technology. It's been a massive support.

So now I'd like to smoothly move into the world of finances, because we've been talking all along about how great technology is, how much it helps. Of course, there are also the risks, you already mentioned that kids use these tools and need to know how to use them responsibly. But let's talk about the costs. Unfortunately, from your perspective, as someone running a foundation, how does that look? In terms of your organization and the process of securing any kind of grants, funding, or financial support to help people with disabilities use technology. Because honestly, this stuff isn't cheap. And we, as a tech company, are very aware of just how expensive it can be.

Obtaining funding depends, among other things, on whether it's from foreign grants, the European Union, the National Institute, there's a lot of options and we don't need to go into every one in detail now. The main issue is that in general, everything gets lumped into one category: "people with disabilities". And sure, we can apply for funds under that label. But if we want to focus specifically on technology, specifically on supporting people in AI related areas, we already have to frame the application differently. We have to involve a technology partner who's able to deliver the project. We have to show that it's worth it, that it improves things. Because if we just say we want to include blind people, that's not enough, it's not the full picture. We have to include things like business training to get companies involved in supporting people with disabilities through technology. That's where firms like yours or other organizations come in.

There are so many guidelines, and the amount of paperwork is overwhelming. Sometimes when we just look at what's required to submit a grant application, for example, just to get funding for technology alone, we find ourselves shrugging and thinking: Do we even want to go through with this? Unfortunately, there are still a lot of barriers. Because when people like you and me, and companies like yours, or foundations like ours or any NGO or corporate partner recognize a problem, we often realize we don't have the money to fund it ourselves, because of ongoing expenses. And then going through the process to secure funding takes so long, and puts such a strain on people, that we start to ask whether it's even worth investing the time. After all, someone has to get paid to write that proposal and there's no guarantee we'll win anything. Most of the time it's a competition.

So it's a 50/50 shot, or worse. In something like Erasmus, for example, when I applied there, the odds were 30%. Writing the proposal takes a month or two. And just for a few thousand zloty, I once spent 23 hours writing a final report. So when you compare the effort to the actual support you get... there's still a lot of work to be done. At this point, I'm more open to working with technology partners in kind of a barter setup like an exchange. We'll offer something, you offer something. We provide people, you provide space or infrastructure. That, for now, feels more practical than applying for grants. Maybe things will improve as technology continues to develop and gain popularity. But we're still in the early stages.

Of course, in places like Germany or the U.S., they just go in and get it done. They know these topics better and they've developed them further. Poland still needs to catch up a bit. But we're on the right path. There's hope. It's not all bad.

We talked about finances, about how all of this is very expensive, but of course there are also free alternatives that people all over the world are using. I'm thinking of things like Google Voice Assistant, which allows users to browse and control the Google interface using voice commands, or Enable Viacam, which lets you control the mouse just by moving your head. Or LipSurf, which allows voice-based browsing in your browser, these are tools created specifically to help people with disabilities. And from your perspective, are there any tools you know of that are free and that our listeners or readers can start using today tools that could help them, or in some way support them in exploring the world of technology?

Yes, there are, because all the things we've talked about like screen readers some of them are free, as well as speech synthesizers. And also, when it comes to therapeutic support, for example when we're waiting lately there's been a lot of talk about having to wait two or three months for an appointment with a psychologist, psychiatrist, or therapist. In the meantime, we can get some support from free tools like ChatGPT, where you can ask a question or describe your situation, and it can roughly suggest some solutions. There are also free therapeutic apps or demo versions, or mindfulness and meditation apps, which can positively impact our well-being. Of course, we're not saying this is full professional help, let's be clear about that, and we absolutely encourage using proper counseling and the support of psychologists and therapists. But yes, there is technology out there, and it's available to use. Like the saying goes: "Seek and you shall find".

So yes, there are definitely alternatives we can turn to and maybe those will actually encourage us to invest even more into technology and realize that there are so many benefits, it's worth taking on the cost, because the gains for us are so much greater.

Exactly. Thank you so much for the entire conversation how we went from technology related topics, to helping children, to employing people with disabilities. These are subjects I personally have never been close to, and today I've truly learned a lot. So, thank you very much for today's discussion. I hope that technology will take another step forward, become even more accessible and affordable. As history has shown, computers were once available only to a select few or entire universities, and today we carry them in our pockets. That's how I see it. Thank you again for today's podcast. It was an absolute pleasure having you here. Would you like to add something to wrap up?

Yes, I'd also like to thank you for the invitation, because I believe that combining what you do with what we're doing can really help improve the social and professional lives of people with disabilities. Also, this was my first podcast like this ever—I've done a few before, but finally, no one asked about my disability, didn't dig into my accident or the personal stories behind founding the foundation. Instead, we got straight to the heart of the matter: technology and artificial intelligence versus people with disabilities and how it impacts their lives. So I'm glad I was invited here, and I actually took a lot away from this as well. It wasn't one sided, it was mutual. And I hope the world keeps working and helping others.

Exactly. Thank you so much.

Thank you very much.

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